Dig SAFE With BC’s Unique Safety Model

Think locating underground utilities is as simple as spray paint and flags? Think again.

Mike Sullivan sits down with Jimmy Yip, Damage Prevention Manager at Fortis BC, to bust myths and unravel the often-misunderstood process of locating and marking utilities in British Columbia. 

They dive into the historical roots of BC's unique paper-based locate model, how regulations shape responses, and why empowering excavators with responsibility has reduced damages over the decades. 

From comparing provincial damage rates to exploring the Alternate Locate Provider (ALP) program in Alberta, this conversation highlights how thoughtful process design and solid data can drive down incidents while keeping public safety top of mind.

Listen For:

3:13 Alberta's Alternate Locate Provider (ALP): A Game Changer

9:00 Why Paper Locates Work in BC

18:44 Comparing Damage Stats: BC vs Alberta

20:19 Decades of Data: Damage Trends Over Time

24:56 Why 65% of Damages Are From Not Calling

36:38 Power Dashboards: Transparent Data Sharing

Connect with guest Jimmy Yip

LinkedIn  

Follow The Safety Moment via Utility Safety Partners 

X | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook

Got an episode idea? info@utilitysafety.ca 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Announcer (00:02):

You are listening to the Safety Moment Podcast by Utility Safety Partners. Safety is always a good conversation and it's a click away. Here's your host, Mike Sullivan.

Mike Sullivan (00:16):

Hi everybody and welcome to the Safety Moment podcast. I'm your host, Mike Sullivan. Today we're going to be talking with Mr. Jimmy Yip from Fortis BC and we're going to be talking about how Fortis, BC and others actually in British Columbia, how they manage the locating and marketing process. There have been people out there that have been saying, oh, they don't locate no f. Of course they locate, but only when they have to. And today we're going to try and dispel this myth or uncover how the locate and marking process works. Jimmy, thank you for joining me on the Safety Moment podcast. We were talking a few weeks ago when we were both at the CGA conference and about just locating and marking it and hey, damage prevention in general. And the more we talk, the more I realize you got to be on the podcast. And so here you are. Thanks so much for joining me.

Jimmy Yip (01:07):

Super honored to be here. Mike, you're a legend.

Mike Sullivan (01:11):

Oh my God. No I'm not. No I'm not. I'm just getting old. That's what happens when you get old. People think you're a legend and then you just fade away and die and I don't want to do that just yet.

Jimmy Yip (01:21):

No, we need to keep you around for

Mike Sullivan (01:23):

I hope to keep around. I hope to stay around for a long time. We were talking about all things locating and marking in general as you're aware and as we talked about, we launched the alternate locate provider in Alberta on August 1st of last year, and it's been successful. I mean, I just posted something to LinkedIn this morning because Roger's communications is now a member of the alternate locate provider, which is newsworthy in itself because the A LP was created for the consortium members initially with the full knowledge that it could expand. And here we are. Rogers is a non consortium member and they are part of the A LP. So this is newsworthy and I mean as you're aware, it wasn't long ago that those assets that now belong to Rogers who were not registered with notification centers in anywhere in Canada. So hats off to, so I mean a little bit of an applaud here for them because just over a year ago, they weren't even part of the picture. The damage prevention process, the general one in Canada, and here we are. They are. But anyway, as I was mentioning, we were talking in the CGA conference a few weeks ago when we created the A LP here in Alberta. We looked around the world at different options that are out there, and one of those options was how locates and more so locate marks, locating and marking is managed in British Columbia, which is a little bit different than here in Alberta.

(03:13):

You're way more knowledgeable about this than I am. So maybe before we even do that, just introduce yourself. I should have done that earlier. I'm sorry, but introduce yourself and then let's talk about how that's done in British Columbia.

Jimmy Yip (03:28):

Yeah, Jimmy up here. For those who are listening, thank you. I'm the damage prevention manager at Fortis B in British Columbia. Been with the organization for 18 years now. This is actually my second time coming back to the damage prevention portfolio. I mentioned you being a legend the first time. I know you was the first time I managed the one called Portfolio. I recall one year the Canadian Common Ground Symposium. We did it in Ben. That was around mid, I think 2015 ish. And I remember you doing the whole music, jazz and whatnot there too. Oh yeah. So it was good. My

Mike Sullivan (04:15):

Own.

Jimmy Yip (04:16):

Yeah, I've been with the company for 18 years now. Second time around managing damage prevention. Really grateful to have this opportunity to speak to you.

Mike Sullivan (04:25):

Oh, and thanks for joining us again, Jimmy. We're always looking for speak with people who are knowledgeable in their field, and this is something that gets talked about from time to time with people in different provinces. When we look at locating and marking and particularly for gas distribution systems, it gets talked about and it's, well, you do know that Fortis BC, they don't locate. I said, well, wait a minute. It's not that they don't locate, they do locate, but not all the time. There's a process to that, and I speak to it as much as I know and probably enough to be dangerous, but having the knowledge working with alongside, I should say Ian Turnbull at CSA committees or what have you over the years, I had an appreciation for how it's done. When we spoke together, you and I, we never really had the opportunity to talk at length in Orlando a few weeks ago. You described the process really well and I thought this needs to be promoted. This needs to be out there about how fort a species is doing, and particularly because of the damage rate, which is, well, it's quite something. There's a story in itself. So how does it work mean? We know the locate request process, but walk us through that.

Jimmy Yip (05:47):

Yeah, maybe if you allow me, I can go back to a bit about the history as to why we do what we do.

Mike Sullivan (05:54):

Yes, please.

Jimmy Yip (05:54):

Yeah, Willie sort it out. And these are stories as shared to me by Ian Turnbull as well. Another legend, A legend to our own right in British Columbia. So he shared a lot of stories with me. In my understanding is back in 1960 ish, the West Coast pipeline known as the Amper gas line today was constructed or during the construction we needed to come up with policies and regulations so that people can work and do things around the pipeline safely. So around that time we actually had a couple of different regulations or management of the pipeline regulations come up. So there's one that's the, today we would call it Energy Resource Activities Act. So anything that's high pressure, so anything a hundred PSI or 700 KBA and above that falls within the BC energy regulators policies or regulations. Then we have the distribution asset, which is in today's world we have technical safety BC who's the regulator, and everything that distribution pressure falls under the gas safety regulations.

(07:20):

So when it comes to the BC energy regulator, the Energy Resource Activities Act, it's pretty simple. So anyone that's going to be working a 30 meter either side of the high pressure pipeline, you just need to reach out to the operator for the species to get a written confirmation as to the allowance of your work to be carried out. But when it comes to distribution asset, there is a fully spelled out gas safety regulations which allow us to do certain things. So for example, the regulation allows an operator like us to get back to a third party who's interested in knowing what's buried underground in three different manners. So one is that we're allowed to send our asset record information like mapping to the external party and they would be responsible for the locating and digging and excavation, not fall within the duty of the operator. The other two would be the more typical manner that's done across North America, which is spray paint or install a flag on top of the area to which excavation would occur. So with that, we have been able to and allow to provide mapping information to parties interested in doing excavation around our asset, and that's been the chosen manner to which we've been carry out our activities over the last 30, 40 years.

Mike Sullivan (09:00):

I mean, as you said, the regulation or the requirements permit you to do that. How has that been? Well, it's been a long time, decades, but how has that been accepted by the digging community?

Jimmy Yip (09:12):

Yeah, it's not always well received, especially in the early days. So in the late 1980s, early 1990s, there had been a merger or purchase or acquisition inland gas company based out of Vancouver Island in British Columbia. They were the one that initiated that acquisition of the lower mainland gas division of BC Hydro. So at one point our company had a history with BC Hydro too. So at that point, inland Gas Company had a method of locating, which is physical locating, but when it comes to BC Hydro gas division, we were doing paper map. We sent paper maps to people so that they would refer to the mapping information and carry out their locating and excavation activity. So at that point, there were a lot of challenges from the communities on Vancouver Island to now have to adopt the new model. I mean, there was a bunch of debate as to we switch everything to physical locating or should we stick to paper locate And ultimately the company chosen the path that we currently do have, and it's more like a widespread thing within British Columbia too. It's not just a gas company. Companies like BC Hydro, PEs, even Rogers, they all send paper maps in British Columbia, but it's not always well received, especially in the early days and especially in Vancouver Island, there have been a bunch of debate as to why we switched to physical locating to Paper loc,

Mike Sullivan (11:11):

And those paper locates or those maps, obviously they need to be maintained. So you're not handing things out that are decades old. They have to be fairly current with every locate. Is that being updated once you have the real data? Okay,

Jimmy Yip (11:26):

Yeah,

Mike Sullivan (11:26):

That's correct. This has been going on since the nineties, right?

Jimmy Yip (11:31):

Yeah, especially if we ask of a record and we actually have about 20 people in my team that are looking at about a thousand information requests daily with each information request coming through, we have to look at our guest main map system to make that all the gas main information it's appropriate, it's available. Then secondary to that, we have to look through each and every individual surface installation record if any of those records are dated. For example, we've seen development like developer come in, buy up a pot of land, maybe 10 different parcels, and now it's combined into one. So the reference points that were listed on a particular sketches now outdated. So in those circumstances, when we send out the paper mapping information, we will let people know, Hey, everything, it's in accordance to what you're required. It's here in this paper mapping package, but additionally for this particular location, we will be going out to mark the ground for you in two business dates. So at the same time when we go out, our technician will do up a new sketch, send it back to the office, we scan it and then insert it. Now we have a new record.

Mike Sullivan (13:02):

So not only are you providing the maps, but you're updating the record accordingly. I mean potentially with every locate, I mean it's less than that likely, but potentially with every locate. Now when this began and many years ago, did you see an increase of damages once it began and how did the company manage that?

Jimmy Yip (13:27):

Yeah, actually I would refer back to that story about Inland Natural Gas Company purchased the gas division of BC Hydro. So at that point, once we switched the first few years of it being paper locate on Vancouver Island, we actually observe a reduction in damages. And so we wondered why that happened too. So we interviewed a number of people, contractors, municipal partners on Vancouver Island. Most people gave us the reasons related to now I am obligated to be responsible for the marking and locating of the guest line, and I'm doing this for my friends and families and the community. So I'm going to be extra careful now that it's not the gas company sending somebody out to mark the ground. So we actually seen reduction in damages overall once we switch the approach. That was one clear example of it being done successfully.

Mike Sullivan (14:39):

How do you manage, I guess the integrity really of the parties that are actually doing the locating? Is there a standard that they have to meet?

Jimmy Yip (14:50):

Yeah, so again, the gas safety regulations and also the energy resource activities acts. It's written in a way favorable for those things to be done. So there are specific guidance as to what the parties responsible for the ground disturbance need to do. Not only are they we responsible for the hand digging, locating of the guest line for example, they are also required to inform utility like ourselves if something isn't where it's expected. So they try to locate maybe with a handheld device or maybe they try to hand dig and unable to find a guest sign, they're obligated to reach back to us. That's when we send somebody out to help with the physical locating and or adjustment to our mapping information as well.

Mike Sullivan (15:47):

Right, and this is that. I've heard that in situations where the assets can't be located or for whatever reason there might be that Fortis will go out and they will locate or provide assistance to do so. It's not like you're the map and good luck. Now there's way more to it than that. I want to talk to you about the alternate locate provider program. Now quite fitting since we're talking about locating with Fortis BC today, the alternate locate provider program launched August 1st, 2024, and it puts the excavator, you the excavator in complete control. All you have to do is submit your locate request and when you get to the A LP question, you can either select the option for an A LP locator or go the conventional route for the locate process. If you select the A LP, you will be directed to the Utility Safety Partners website where you can select a registered locator to carry out the locate to date. There have been over 13,000 locates that have gone through the A LP process. It puts you in charge of the locate working directly with the locator, improving communications and overall reducing the likelihood of damage.

(17:21):

And it's interesting when you say that managing the locate and locating a marking element of the damage prevention process. This way it puts the onus on the excavator to really be mindful of what they're doing and that's where you see the reduction in damages. So I have on my other screen here, I'm looking at the CC G'S damage, sorry, the damaged information reporting report, reporting tool report, the dirt report, and in 2023 there were thousand 65 damages recorded or voluntarily reported in British Columbia with about 4.65 damages per thousand requests and which is impressive. In Alberta we had three times as many damages reported and with about seven damage, a little bit over seven damages per thousand locate requests. Now you really shouldn't compare one province to the other because all voluntary reporting, and I know in Alberta at the time we had a very high number of dirt submitters over 50 or 60 and I don't think they have as many in bridge Columbia, but you're comparing your own data year after year, you're comparing your data to yourself. And what have you seen seen with the trending over the years for damages?

Jimmy Yip (18:44):

Yeah, so going back to the 1990s, we would be seeing about 3000 damages a year and with each decade that we moved into near or near era, we are actually, as of last year, we've gone down below the 800 mark. So it's quite significant and we have seen the gradual decline over the years to a point where we are now at 800 to manage in terms of a yearly damage result. But yeah, we refer back to the 1990s, it would be about 3000 damage for the year and very few people will be asking for the one call information. But by 2010, that was the first time I got into damage prevention, managing the outbound one call activities. We were doing about 80,001 call response at that time and we would still be seeing about 1500 damages a year. But now we're doing over 170,000 information requests a year. We are only seeing less than 800 damages in a year. So it's been an overall declining trend. I think there's a lot to do with how we help educate people as well as the influences to the use of the one call system. It's been huge to me.

Mike Sullivan (20:19):

Well, I mentioned a few moments ago or at the top of our discussion that we've had over 13,000 locates have now been carried out through the A LP option since August 1st, and there have been zero damages reported to us since August 1st where the A LP option was utilized. So very similar in the sense that what you're experiencing with Fortis BC and the methodology there is what we're experiencing here and effectively the utilities aren't locating the excavator is, but there's been significant rigor placed around the capacity, the integrity of those parties that are locating, they have to be registered as a LP locators. And I think this is probably mean if change is based on data and data is king, then I foresee something change. I foresee change coming based on what we're seeing today, how many locators are, I mean it's a tough question to answer, but how many locators do you think are carrying out locates in British Columbia over your assets today?

Jimmy Yip (21:36):

If we're thinking about our own, because we don't do physical locating on a daily, we actually have our customer service technician in certain areas to do it. So that's just a sidekick to them. We do have a few dedicated prime contractors, the ones that we vetted through the process to do locating for us. There are, I would say two handful of major parties that do dedicated locating work for the general public. We deployed about four to five of them ourselves. And we are part of common ground with BCBC, common Ground Alliance. These parties also sit at the board level or as a member level to come to that common ground working together. And there's a lot of reference or referral because these folks joined BC common ground and we're able to utilize BC common ground as a platform to go, Hey, if you wanted to work with any qualified locator, here is a good option, reach out to BC common ground and they'll give you a referral. Right.

Mike Sullivan (22:59):

Yeah. And this is sort of the idea here in Alberta as well. There's no shortage of locators, but there was an artificial shortage of locators that were permitted to locate these assets. And now that has been expanded significantly. The process that you're managing in British Columbia, Fortis, BC and that Telus, and as you said, BC Hydro is utilizing Rogers, it permits outside locates sources to do this work. And my guess, just like in Alberta, there is no shortage of locators out there.

Jimmy Yip (23:38):

And over the years because of the way we operate the major utilities like Hydro ourselves, Pacific Norton Gas, Telus Rogers, and because of the way that we've been doing it all over the years, it's recognized as being a need to have locator qualify locators who are able to help people, contractors, homeowners who are based out of British Columbia to get that surface. I mean to me, I think in a way we have those resources established over time and that the need has been seen increasing, right? Because there's just so many one call tickets now, people are so aware of the need to locate things prior to ground disturbance.

Mike Sullivan (24:33):

No, we've been able to do a good job there I think promoting, promoting what to do in advance, any ground disturbance. Going back to the number of damages per year, so you're roughly about 800 damages per year right now. What is the root cause of those damage? Was it no locate generally or it must be a significantly high percentage of those that are no locates

Jimmy Yip (24:56):

Or no locate requests? Sorry, you're a hundred percent right. So 65% of the damages are result of people never utilizing the one call system. So basically they're digging bind and of the remaining 30, 35%, there's a few percent natural reasons or vehicle incident. For example, majority of those who actually had a ticket, they failed to refer to it or maybe the paperworks are with the cool lead who's on a different job site or they just simply never apply safe picking methodology. For example, the one meter, no machine dig zone, that's another one, right? But a majority of it, it's a result of people not using the one call system, getting the mapping information. So this is why within British Columbia, there's still a strong push for us to share the use of one call with external parties.

Mike Sullivan (25:58):

What happens if it's a, I'm assuming this is the process for the professional excavator. So if I'm a homeowner and I submit a locate request is and I'm doing my own fence or whatever the case may be, will Fortis come out and locate in those circumstances?

Jimmy Yip (26:20):

So it all depends. If it is a standard installation, meaning let's say you don't work in your yard, there is only a guest service connection coming in from the gas main to the gas meter. If we did the installation by way of standard meaning it's just a straight connection from the gas main to the gas meter, we will coach you as to how to hand dig and refer to the information we provided over the phone. So I do have the 20 agents on a daily while they're generating the mapping information, we received a lot of homeowner calls as well, and each and every one of those call, we take the time to walk 'em through how to use the mapping information as well as determining whether there is a need for us to come out and do the physical mark. Common scenario, it's a rural property and we installed a gas line with multiple Jos because we want to avoid trees and rocks and all that. We would have no hesitation to send somebody out to help with the physical locating. So those are common scenarios to which we'll actually send somebody out to help. But if it is a short surface installation, several meters long and urban setting, it's only a straight line going in from the gas meter to the gas meter. Those scenarios we prefer to walk people through over the phone.

Mike Sullivan (27:51):

Interesting. Yeah, I find this all really fascinating, particularly when you boil it down to the data and as I mentioned earlier, data is king. It will determine whether or not, well, we can keep doing this or we have to improve it or maybe we have to abandon it. And it doesn't sound like you have to abandon anything. It sounds like you have improved it over time and you'll continue to do so. And you mentioned earlier years ago that there was some hesitation, we'll call it that within the digging community saying, Hey, we don't want to locate, you guys locate, but that's largely gone now over time. And do you find yourself amongst your peers though? I mean you're part of the Canadian Gas Association and you find yourself among your peers having to sort of defend what you're doing. It is very different compared to everybody else.

Jimmy Yip (28:46):

And Mike, I'm with you. Data speaks volume. If we are able to show a positive trend over the years that you know what it is really working, as long as we work hard to educate people and that people become accustomed to what they are responsible for, and if we can see a positive trend over time that we would be more than happy to change our course if it and go the other way. But we are seeing this declining trend. It's more for me to educate people as to what we absolutely do. For example, like you suggested earlier, we don't do not come out, we do come out. It's only for certain scenarios. If people are working around our high pressure guest line, if they are about to come our right of way or if they're very close to our large diameter distribution pressure pipeline, we do send somebody out to work with these folks. It's the day-to-day distribution network. We kind of put the trust out there to the folks that are doing ground as servants work. Certainly our regulators such as works, A, B, C, they are a huge component. So as technical safety BC, there is education at all fronts and not just coming from ourselves. There's also the one call center BC common ground. We're all looking at the same angle, trying to educate people as to the need to call into one call, get your mapping information and then also do your safe thinking.

Mike Sullivan (30:30):

Well, I find it fascinating. I can draw some similarities actually with the locate request process. So it wasn't that long ago and I probably sound like a broken record, but it was all call, right? Everybody pushing the phone, which that was the call to action, that was it. And then we introduced the web click before you dig, and then we discovered that well, the locate requests, sorry, there'll be less damages if you go by the web. And that's been proliferated and now we're seeing very high percentages on the web, yet we're hesitant to tell the homeowner, you have to locate, submit your locate requests over the web. We're hesitant because we think, okay, well you know what? They only do this once every five, 10 years, maybe once in a lifetime. What if we put a little barrier in front of 'em that says, oh, you're going to request a locate, but you got to go in the web.

(31:29):

And they're like, that sounds like too much trouble. I'm just going to go ahead and dig. So what's the tipping point, right? Where are we with the tipping point? Because we see organically that yeah, we're about 60% now homeowners on the web next year would be 62, 3, whatever. It just keeps going up every year. But as you probably know, Ontario, just at the, on March 31st, they mandated web requests for homeowners and I applaud them because we know it reduces damages. But what about that tipping point, right? What about that tipping point? There had to be in drawing the similarity back to what Fortis BBC is doing, there had to be that consideration or that concern really what's the tipping point? If we're forcing excavators to carry out their own locates, will they, and how do you know? You know that they are so there had to be that concern, but it sounds like you're past that now.

Jimmy Yip (32:28):

Not quite Mike, and you are right. Homeowners might just proceed with what they want to do. I tend to think there is a rural and urban divide too. So there is a lot of folks in the urban centers in the lower mainland, British Columbia, the professions may be a lawyer, be an accountant, they don't know anything about baking or where things are buried. I tend to think these folks actually have a genuine concern as to, okay, what if I hit something and we do a lot of marketing through one call on ourselves, letting people know it's important to make that phone call. And if you do actually make a phone call in the call center with BC One Call, it's actually a Pelican group that that's the contact center function for BC One Call. They actually will talk to the homeowner and educate them as to, Hey, you need to go on BC one onec ca set up an account.

(33:37):

It's a very few short step. From there, there's a bit of a guided approach as to well pick and choose from the dropdown what you are doing, indicate the date to which your work will begin, do up a little boundary and off you hit send. The utilities that are members of One Call will get back to you with the relevant information. So I think it's important that we go ahead and educate people as opposed to just, Hey, you know what? I'll take down your information. I'll send it off on your behalf, right? Because to me, I'm with you. If the party that's we responsible for the ground disturbance make that cognizant step in submitting the request themselves, I tend to think the error to which there's always that middle person trying to take down the information over the phone call and try to compute it into a computer. There's going to be some mistakes or errors to be made. So it's better for us to educate the general public, including homeowners, so they can also help educate their friends and families to the need to go on the web portal. We've made it so simple now, Mike, the portal, it's applicable for all four Western provinces in Canada. There's really no excuse to not use it. It's a three to five minute process at max for a homeowner to generate a request.

Mike Sullivan (35:08):

And I agree with you, we have to educate at every opportunity. And I know here in Alberta we provide those services for Saskatchewan and Manitoba as well, and we do, we provide that education as much as possible. And I know that Pelican Corp does as well. So finding those opportunities and even though it takes an extra couple of minutes, and it used to be all about the speed. When you have a homeowner or anybody requesting a locate over the phone, it's like, okay, we got to go fast, got to go fast, get the next one in. And now that's totally changed. No, no, take your time. Educate, provide information, make sure they understand. And I think we have that luxury now because most of the people that we're talking to, the contact center, people are talking to the agents, they are homeowners. We're at 98% plus on the web for members and contractors. They get it, but it's the excavator, sorry, it's the homeowner who's excavating for that. Maybe the first time they need that time. That handholding. I wanted to ask you, going back to the, I mean just your role mean, obviously your role within Fortis BC is way more than just looking at locating and marketing and managing all this and you're connected to the public awareness team, the communications team. Are you constantly tweaking the messaging that's going out? So

Jimmy Yip (36:38):

I think absolutely that's one. We have to look at it year after year. As to the trend, recent years, we used to do things on spreadsheets. So we have dashboard on three separate spreadsheets and we only share the information to our leaders. Everyone else in the company used to not be able to see such information. So we made a cognizant decision over the past few years, we're going to create this Power BI dashboard that's available to all employees within the company. So ops person can use the same portal to talk to a contractor. I do like my public safety manager at Add do. When we go out to the public, we actually have no hesitation to open up the dashboard and show people our trends. Where are we seeing the most line hits, what type of work that caused the most damages, what equipment? So over the last few years, I tend to think that there is a bit of a transition. Now, contractors got the message as long as we're able to, sorry, got a phone call in as long as we're able to,

Mike Sullivan (38:00):

The job never stops, right? The job never stops the job

Jimmy Yip (38:04):

As long as we're able to. So I'll go back to the dashboard. So we're able to see certain trends. So we're seeing a change in the past. Contractors are the ones that do the most damage to us, and they are still high up there. But what we've noticed is over the last few years we've seen more and more landscaping companies causing the damage to our system to a point. Now they are at our number one, it's not even contractors anymore, contractors that do construction work. Actually, as long as they hear the ad about BC one call or watch see the ad on tv, they are actually prompted to, oh yes, I forgot that one call ticket. But for landscapers, we realize, okay, well that may be a group that we need to target over the next few years because they may think that they actually don't need the one call ticket because they're thinking, they're thinking this steep only, but the guest line might just be there.

(39:12):

So we are seeing more of that damages from that group. So we're constantly working the angle, again, looking into numbers. Numbers don't lie. So if we see landscapers or the group of people that are causing the most damage to our system, we need to change some of our messaging showing more relevant ads as to, okay, you know what, if you, let's say you're realtor, you only install sales signs, but coincidentally, that's what's caused the damage to our gas line that doesn't even have to use excavator. So over the years we've seen some of those trends and we're changing our messaging over time.

Mike Sullivan (40:02):

And really your program is completely integrated internally and that's excellent. And I'm sure, I think Adam Addison, she's also part of the emergency management team, is she not?

Jimmy Yip (40:12):

That's right. Yeah. So we try to,

Mike Sullivan (40:15):

That's real.

Jimmy Yip (40:16):

Yeah. We try to work all those things all together so that there is that coherence.

Mike Sullivan (40:22):

Oh, this, I really appreciate talking with me today about this Jimmy and trying to take the veil of secrecy or whatever you want to call it, off of the Fortis PC located marketing process. I find it fascinating that there's really no one perfect way to do this, but from everything we know, and through discussions like this, we can get closer and closer to zero damages and the damage prevention process and locating and marking, it costs a lot of money. It's a huge cost for the utility owners, and obviously nobody wants anything nefarious to happen or nothing bad to happen. And the data going back again, the data doesn't lie. And if we can keep fine tuning what we're doing to keep driving that damage data down, then clearly you're doing something right. So thanks very much for this. I sincerely appreciate it.

Jimmy Yip (41:31):

Thanks, Mike. Yeah, I am really grateful to be on your show.

Mike Sullivan (41:35):

That's going to wrap things up on the Safety Moment podcast. I want to thank our producer stories and strategies, and I hope you choose to follow this podcast on any director you're listening on. And please do leave a rating. We appreciate it. You can follow us on x formulate Twitter at utility safety. We're also on Instagram and Facebook. If you'd like to send us a note, maybe you have an episode idea, you can email us at info@utilitysafety.ca and put podcast in the subject header. I'm Mike Sullivan, the president of Utility Safety Partners. Click to know what's above and below. One click costs you nothing, not clicking. Well, that could cost you everything. I.