MultiViewer: The Evolution of Digital Map Sharing for Utility Locating

Have you ever thought about the future of utility locating?  

In this episode, Mike talks with Kris Philpott of Planview Utility Services and Iain Stables from Atco about the game-changing technology behind the Alternate Locate Provider (ALP) system.  

They dive into the evolution of damage prevention, highlighting the importance of tools like multi-viewer in streamlining and securing data for locators and excavators.  

This dynamic conversation uncovers how modern GIS platforms and data management tools are reshaping safety standards in the utility industry. 

Listen For:
06:14 - From Paper Prints to Game-Changing GIS
11:17 - How Multi-Viewer Standardizes Utility Data for Locators
17:52 - Comparing ALP Success in Alberta and Ontario
34:40 - How ALP Removes Barriers and Streamlines Processes 

Guests:
Kris Philpott
Website | LinkedIn  

Iain Stables
Email | Iain’s LinkedIn | Website | ATCO LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram  

Follow The Safety Moment via Utility Safety Partners
X | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook 

Got an episode idea? info@utilitysafety.ca 

Chapters

• 6:14 From Paper Prints to Game-Changing GIS
• 11:17 How Multi-Viewer Standardizes Utility Data for Locators
• 17:52 Comparing ALP Success in Alberta and Ontario
• 34:40 How ALP Removes Barriers and Streamlines Processes

Transcript

Announcer (00:02):

You are listening to the Safety Moment Podcast by Utility Safety Partners. Safety is always a good conversation and it's a click away. Here's your host, Mike Sullivan.

Mike Sullivan (00:15):

Hello everybody and welcome to the Safety Moment podcast. If I'm not mistaken, this is episode 63, which again just continues to blow my mind that we have this many episodes of the safety moment out there and we just keep chugging along. My guest today is Kris Philpot from Planview and Mr. Iain stables. Iain making his, I don't know, his dozen, how many is this now? Two or three dozen. You've been on the podcast recently, but I know particularly we're talking with Kris predominantly about planview, which is utility map sharing platform that is part and parcel of all the buried utilities that need something like this for sharing the information to the locators, but particularly what we're talking about today is plan view services in relation to the alternate locate provider. So before we go any further, Kris, Iain, welcome to the safety moment.

Kris Philpot (01:13):

Thanks for having me,

Mike Sullivan (01:17):

Iain. Just the same as I saw you probably yesterday. I think we were in another meeting yesterday.

Iain Stables (01:23):

Yeah, we've been talking a lot, but I think that's been good, Mike, because it's all related to the A LP and the good response that we've seen from it so far. So glad to be here and glad to be here with Kris.

Mike Sullivan (01:36):

Yeah, and waving the A LP flag. We're going to talk a lot about the alternate locate provider and probably we will be merging into the designated locator in Ontario, which obviously Kris is very familiar with and Iain to a greater extent as well. But before we do that, Kris, please introduce yourself. Tell us who you are and what you do.

Kris Philpot (02:01):

All right, thanks. Thanks Mike. So Kris Philpot, I'm the Senior Vice President at Planview Utility Services. We are a utility service company. We provide telecom and electric utility engineering services. We have field inspections, subsurface utility engineering team, and a GIS team. And our GIS team does amongst many things, data management for all of our customers. We also provide a lot of services specific to the damage prevention groups. So we manage data on behalf of one call centers in Ontario. We are the partner for Ontario One Call. And so we work with every infrastructure owner in terms of getting their data into the Ontario One call system for notifications. We also have a couple solutions, and that's what we're going to talk a bit about today. A predominantly multi-viewer is this that we have for basically data distribution, getting data from the utilities to the field in the hands of the locators to be able to perform their locates.

(03:10):

And that's not just GIS data, it's all utility record data. I'm sure we'll talk a bit about that in a bit. Back to myself, my background is in electrical engineering technology. So I studied at GeorgIain College here in Ontario, and I actually went on and worked for a few different electric utilities out of school. I worked at Toronto Hydro and I worked for Von Hydro, which ultimately is now called Electra Utilities, and they've grown significantly here in Ontario. So my background started in the electric utility space and I was one of the partners when we founded Planview in late 2011. So I made the leap from the electric utility space out into the private world. We started planview with a bit of a vision of providing integrated services from engineering to subsurface utility engineering, and sort of bringing it all together through GIS, through the power of location intelligence and mapping. And so I think we've achieved setting up the company in that way and we've grown significantly since then.

Mike Sullivan (04:26):

And I was just going to say, you've probably experienced a massive amount of growth in this space since 2011, and you saw the opportunity, congratulations for doing that and taking a leap of faith like that is never easy.

Kris Philpot (04:38):

Yeah, absolutely. It was a big personal decision. My wife definitely supported me, which was great. Can't say so much about the parents. They like that nice, comfortable utility job. But no, it's never looked back.

Mike Sullivan (04:57):

Good on you. Good on, obviously it's a service that we saw as we just said, there's been a tremendous amount of growth, but it's a service that's needed and to be at the forefront of that spear then. Good for you, Iain. I think everybody knows who you are now, but please, just a brief introduction is always nice.

Iain Stables (05:15):

Yeah, thanks Mike. Iain Stables. I am the manager of damage prevention for Atco. Prior to coming to Atco, I started as a locator, not knowing the career I was about to get myself into and quickly fell in love with the damage prevention job. And our goal has always been to get people home and safely, and that's always inspired to me. The thing I'm really interested about today is through my career in damage prevention. I remember starting as a locator where we had to actually phone the utility owner to get information about their asset. There were no prints available. Then we went to paper prints and slowly started working into GIS and then shared GIS into. And here we are today talking about a tool that is really game-changing for the locators and the locate industry. So I'm quite interested in the discussion today. I think I've seen all aspects of it.

Mike Sullivan (06:14):

When I hear what you just said, Iain and I try and capture that in a couple of words. I think it's you're old is what it comes down to. Well, you've been around a long time and so have I think about it. I mean, I've experienced a lot of that evolution as well, right? Yeah. Well, and this is where a guy like Kris comes in because I mean Kris, obviously you're a huge supporter for the damage prevention process and damage prevention entirely and damage prevention. I'm making air quotes here. Damage prevention is one of these things. If you ask anybody who's in this field, whether you're locating and marketing, engineering, whatever it might be, education awareness, damage prevention is something that there's a formula that gets into your DNA and you become one with the whole objective of a preventing damage. Obviously public safety and plan view is a huge part of that. So how would you say that plan view supports damage prevention today, Kris?

Kris Philpot (07:29):

So I mentioned multi-viewer, so I'm going to start there and then I'll circle back and talk about a few other areas that we support damage prevention. But starting with multi-viewer, we got to go back in Ontario to probably late two thousands. There were a few utilities, Enbridge Union Gas and Bell Canada essentially came together and realized they had their essentially call before you dig in place, although that was before Ontario one call and the legislation here in Ontario. But they did come together and they had a one call center set up. So they streamlined that front end. But what they realized is they're still sending out multiple trucks to do locates, right? So someone's going out there on behalf of Bell, someone's there on behalf of Enbridge, and they really wanted to streamline that. So the group of individuals from each of those companies came together and they created the LOCATE AllIaince consortium or lack the idea there is they would procure several locate service providers in different regions to perform locates on behalf of all interested parties.

(08:47):

Great concept. When they started going down that path, they quickly realized they needed data in the hands of the locators and they received data from each of those organizations in the native GIS formats. And it became a bit of a pain point because they had multiple GIS technologies on their laptops in the field, which was costly, and they had multiple ways of getting those records updated. And if you think about hundreds of locators throughout the province at the time, trying to make sure they have the latest and greatest data access to these different systems, they arrive on site and they zoom into one location, perform a locate for one utility, then they have to open up another piece of software, zoom to the same location, perform the second locate. And it was that group combined with some of the folks, actually one of the co-founders of Planview, Wayne Cran, who was in the industry here in Ontario for a number of years, came up with the concept of multi-viewer.

(09:55):

And that is basically a secure GIS and record sharing platform for the locators. And that's really where it was born. So the goal was to be able to bring all these utility data sets together, standardize them, and create a user experience that is very specific to the utility locators, right? So not a powerful GIS system with a thousand icons where you can do all kinds of things, it's very streamlined to the locate process. You zoom to your location or perhaps you have GPS already turned on and you're at the location and you're always one click away from flipping between each utility. Yeah. So that's the gist of it. And we also provide the underlying records beneath the GIS, right? So yes, the GIS data is great for some utilities. It's very rich, and you can perform a locate directly from that, including dimensions. Other utilities have a combination of GIS and as-built records and through the platform we push out those as-built records as well. So again, the locate staff out in the field, the locators, they're always one click away from drilling into those as-built records and getting all the information they need.

Mike Sullivan (11:17):

So Iain, you're coming at this from obviously from utility owner operator, but also from your locating background. And you saw this happening in Alberta when the consortiums emerged many, many years ago, a very similar history that Kris just described in Ontario. But from a locator's perspective, you mentioned having to call, they actually call the actual utilities years ago. This is a game changer, obviously, when something like this came in. Just describe how that changed the locator's work. I mean, just in terms of time alone,

Iain Stables (11:56):

It was a big efficiency for the locators. And I even remember Mike and just talking about Kris, where he mentioned locators would have to open so many different individual programs that they might not be experts in, might not understand how to fully use. We actually had one program, if you forgot to close the program before opening another program, it would overwrite the data. Oh God. But where we saw the big efficiencies, and not just efficiencies, but safety is a locator had, when you start getting into GIS platforms, they have a accurate source of truth. And what it does as opposed to when you're looking at individual GIS software is you get to see the utilities in relation to each other. And as a locator, that was really valuable because one look, you can see, oh, I might have a ghosting risk or I might have to think of some of this. So as much it was an efficiency because it was absolutely a time saver as opposed to having to constantly open and reopen. It was really the safety part that I like to focus on because it gave the locators a much more accurate view of all the utilities in the area, and they could factor that into their actual physical locate.

Mike Sullivan (13:14):

That's a game changer. I mean, really in reality, that's a game changer. So thank goodness Kris came along and to say, yeah, that's a good idea. I'm going to do this. Despite his parents saying, are you crazy? You're leaving the industry? No, I mean, I'm kidding, obviously. But this is what fascinates me about any industry, but particularly damage prevention because it's where we operate, where we live is the amount of innovation that happens and whether it's individually with a company like Planview or a new concept or something like that, and we operate, we operate, we operate, and then we springboard to a new level and then we operate, we springboard to a new level. So having the vision, Kris, you saw the need and you worked with some partners and you created that. It's tremendous when you think about it. I mean, yeah, it takes a lot of guts, but you have that vision and you move forward. So now let's bring this to where we are today with the alternate locate provider. I mean obviously the utilities that are, the consortium utilities in Alberta have been using this service for quite some time, but how does this work now? And take me through, I have no idea, maybe Iain, you're the best person to do that, but for the person out there who's listening to us, why is this important? Why is it so important that the alternate locate provider be working with Planview in this case?

Iain Stables (14:46):

Maybe I'll start and Kris, please jump in. I think the reason we went to multi-viewer and it's crucial is when you look at our traditional locating, we give our data to other vendors in a format and they have their own individual viewers, and it can look different from one utility or locate provider to another. With multi-viewer, what it does is it ensures right across the province we have consistency. And with that consistency, it becomes much easier to train people because you're not training them on multiple different pieces of software. It's one piece of software that we can train on. And what it also does is it has eliminated the artificial borders or the real borders that we have had in the province regarding locating, because for some locate companies to go to another area, they would essentially have to learn an entirely new GI S system.

(15:43):

So by us using multi-viewer, we were able to give all the newly onboarded A LP vendors access to all our facilities in a safe manner, but eliminate all the old requirements of having to be trained for specific regions specific utility. It's all done and managed by multi-viewer now, and that's the other thing is these vendors aren't waiting on all the consortium members to do the training regarding reading the system. Multi-viewer is there. And another thing is there's real time answers If people are having questions from logging in or to, what does this mean? I think Mike, we're going to use this a lot here, but it has been a game changer and really it has taken down some of the traditional barriers that have plagued locating in Alberta for a number of years and given us a path forward that is a lot less restrictive.

Mike Sullivan (16:37):

Well, and the A LP is a game changer. I don't know if you're aware, Kris, I mean obviously you're aware that we launched it August 1st, utility Safety Partners, we processed roughly 45,000 plus locate requests in August and just shy of 10% of all those locate requests selected the A LP option, which was tremendous. We were not expect, I don't know what we were expecting to be quite honest. I mean, I thought almost 10% was like, wow, that's pretty high from what I understand, that is very high. And the digging community clearly is responding, yes, we wanted this, yes, this is going to work. And when you have good people coming together that again, have that vision, have that foresight, have that innovation, and continually improving the process, that's what we need to have. The A LP work, the designated locator in Ontario has seen similar success. And have you seen any differences? Is it different at all working with Alberta in this case on the A LP versus the designated locator, or is it all the same?

Kris Philpot (17:52):

No, I think there's a lot of overlap here in Ontario, the designated locator was really sort of kicked off with a government funded program to support our accelerated HighSpeed internet initiative here in Ontario. So it was sort of mandated as part of that initiative and that the telecoms, as they're building out the new program, which is connecting HighSpeed internet essentially everywhere in the province, they had the ability to go and speak to all the utility owners and infrastructure owners and municipalities to come together and agree on a single dedicated locator and allow them to basically perform their locates when they need them. So just in time and multi-viewer played a big part in getting that data out to them. And it's really the same model in Alberta. The only difference I think is sort of the driver and you guys are not married to this single funded program, and Ontario is expanding outside of that program as well. But I think that's what really got it kicked off.

Mike Sullivan (19:05):

And here in Alberta, I mean, we looked at what was happening in Ontario, and I referenced Iain as the juggernaut behind this, but he really was bringing together all the other utilities and saying, we need to do this. And utility safety partners tapping us in the shoulder saying, we think you guys should probably coordinate this, and we are more than happy to do that. It was a long process, really it was a two and a half year process through a couple of project managers that were focused on their part of the process. And now we have Ron Laman who really brought it over the finish line, but we looked Ontario and said, okay, if that's happening there, we need to do this. Obviously we need to do this before government says you have to. We're in a situation here where we don't have that comprehensive legislation governing all buried utilities or required locates, but there is partial legislation that could easily influence similar.

(20:09):

So it was good to go about this and I'm glad we did it the way we did. I think we all wish it had gone a little, taken it off a little faster. But we are where we are now. The person in the field, and again, explain this to me. Well, I really don't know because I'm not a locator. I've been around all of this for 30 plus years, but I've never been that guy in the field locating now the data. And what I do know, obviously is the data that utility owners have is, well, you want to protect it to a certain degree, right? Yes, you have pipeline markers out there. You have buried utility markers saying, we have assets here, but nothing pinpoints it. It's right here. It's in the vicinity of those markers, whatever. But this information that you're providing to the locator who really has very little relationship with the utility owner, you're providing them specific data. So how does that work? How do they get that data and how do they make it work for them?

Kris Philpot (21:08):

So yeah, I can build on what Iain sort of laid out on the importance of multiview and the role it plays. And there's two factors there. There's the piece on data distribution. So the infrastructure owners, their challenge is they need to get data out to the locators. And when it's a contract area and they select one locate company that's sort of a one-to-one relationship, there's still a challenge there because they may have hundreds of locators, their locators may come and go, and the utility needs to be confident that when they provide data, every single locator in that team is getting the data at the same time.

(21:50):

And if they happen to be offline, we need to know that they're getting that data. And so on the data distribution side, multi-viewer solves for that. Every time a locator logs in, we're checking to see if there's new data available from the various utilities. At the same time, the utilities can set an expiration date on their data. So when they push out an update, if a locator hasn't performed an update in four weeks, they get locked out. They no longer have access to that data. So we guarantee that no one is in the field if they haven't, for whatever reason, they haven't been able to get internet access to get a live update, they are never working with stale data. And so from a data distribution perspective that solves that from an access and security perspective to give confidence to those utilities, they ultimately provide the approval on who's getting the data.

(22:52):

And we maintain that openness in terms of who they've requested data to be sent to. If it's a single locator at a construction company or if it's a large locate service provider, we go right down to the user level and as users come and go, utility is aware of that, and we're able to lock anyone out basically instantly if need be. And that data again expires. So they have confidence that their data is not out there to the world, it's only to who needs to see it. And another interesting thing with multi-viewer, a lot of locators have overlapping jurisdiction and it's not always the same locator. And so utility A can provide data to a locator, and that same locator may not have access to another company. Maybe they don't have a contract with them or they don't have access through multiview. So we can get right down. It's not just based on jurisdiction, but based on each utility. So a given locator can only see exactly what they're supposed to see.

Mike Sullivan (24:02):

You make it sound so easy, and it's interesting listening to you, and you've been there since the beginning. This is kind of like your child and you speak about it so easily and so eloquently. For a guy like me, I get it right away. So this is really valuable information for me, and I'm sure many people listening, you're unveiling the mystery behind what it is that you're doing. Now, obviously this is important. This is critical to the damage prevention process, but when we're looking at an alternate locate provider process or designated locate process, even more so because now the relationship has shifted from the utility owner and the locator to the locator and the excavator now in what we're expecting will happen down the road is that we will have members of the digging community themselves excavating contractors. They will bring in locating staff, they will bring in locators on staff, and they will be part and parcel of that construction company that should not, and I don't think it should not create any conflict of interest here between that person providing no services for the excavator because again, that data is critical to them getting their work done.

(25:20):

Have you seen that, not the conflict of interest part at all, but have you seen that in Ontario where the digging community is now, they now have locators on staff. Are you there yet?

Kris Philpot (25:32):

I think we have seen some of that, absolutely. We've also seen the excavators going to the locate service providers and hiring them directly because they're already trained. They have the resource pool. And in Ontario, the locate service providers that provide services to lack all use multi-viewer. So they already have the platform in place and it's just a matter of them getting access to the utilities that the excavator requires in that area. And in many cases, they already have that access. So it definitely streamlines when they outsource to a locate service provider. But again, even internally, it's a matter of them signing up for a multi-viewer license. The locators only pay for the license to the software and the subscription and the utilities pay for the data management, the hosting and the data distribution. And Iain also mentioned earlier about the support. So planview provides all the frontline support to the end users. So whether that's an A LP dedicated locator or one of the contract locators, if they have any issue with data or with multi-viewer, they're contacting our tech support and we're providing that frontline support on behalf of all the utilities.

Mike Sullivan (27:09):

You've heard all about the alternate locate provider on this podcast and earlier podcasts, we finally launched the A LP alternate locate provider August 1st, 2024. In one month, utility safety partners processed over 45,000 locate requests, and the alternate locate provider option was selected in almost 10% of those locate requests. I want to thank the digging community for doing that and for trusting the alternate locate provider trusting utility safety partners and being a safety partner. Thank you. And again, going back to this is again, you're unveiling that mystery, but when we're in a situation with the utilities kind of being removed here a little bit from the process, but we're talking streamlining and this is so new, what is being offered now, the alternate locate provider is so new, I think since 2022, the designated locator has been a service provider in Ontario, but this is so new, and I'm absolutely positive there are people out there that are hesitating to select the option because they don't know all of this, all the nuances behind here and the permissions required and the cost perhaps and the liability.

(28:33):

And for those of you who are listening, all of this has been considered as we built the alternate locate provider. All of this has been considered and managed accordingly so that the process, the alternate locate provider program can unfold the way it is. This is not going to go away. And I think we're really on to something here if you want to call it that, but I mean this is going to change the industry. As our friend Iain said a short time ago, there's been so many changes to the initiating the damage prevention process in the last 10 years or so with so many people now going online to submit a locate request and eliminating the agent entirely. But there's been virtually nothing that has changed in 30 years for locating and marketing until now. And having the knowledge, the comfort that the data is secure, that the people who are using the data is secure on behalf of the utility owner. All of that provides a greater level of integrity and comfort obviously moving forward. Now, Iain, coming from the utility owner's side without, without the ability to do what we're doing now without plan view, without multi-viewer, you couldn't do

Announcer (29:57):

This. No, Mike, you're a hundred percent right. And from the very beginning of all the discussions around the A LP, the one area that we were concerned about was how do we share the data and how do we share that safely? And I think the other thing with the cybersecurity threat that is growing and growing, it seems like weekly, there's a lot of hesitation to give old hard copies or share our data the same way we used to. And Kris is very modest, but I think that was one of the things that really stood out to us and made this an easy decision once we had the discussions is everything that we've done with the A LP and specifically multi-viewer and planview has added benefit to our current model. Whether it's the ease of onboarding people, if you've never been exposed to GIS, it is a daunting task and we've eliminated the fear or the high costs of really expensive software and added layers upon layers of security, but more importantly, made it something that is user-friendly. And when we started really working through the A LP, we knew and you were involved in those conversations, Mike, we needed to put something into people's hands that was user-friendly and didn't require a lot of maintenance or upkeep on their part. And I think we, out of one of the areas of everything around and all the successes associated with the A LP, it is how we ended up sharing our data. That is perhaps one of the things I'm most proud about.

Mike Sullivan (31:42):

I agree. And just to try and wrap things up here, Kris, how could a utility or how can a utility or a locate service provider get started with multi-viewer?

Kris Philpot (31:53):

So in Ontario, for the most part, we have 40 plus utilities in Ontario that are already distributing data through it. I think 2000 plus locators using it every day in the field in Alberta. The consortium is sort of getting off the ground this year, and I think Word is getting out there. So any A LP that's interested in their talking to the utilities, they're going to get forwarded to us. And same thing in Ontario from the infrastructure owner, from the utility, generally they get recommended to come to us to get a license, but directly anyone on the excavation side or the locate side, they can go to our website, planview.ca. We have a contact form specifically for multi-viewer. So the requests can be made there. And same for the utilities. Any utility looking to share their data can contact us through there as well.

Mike Sullivan (32:54):

No, that is exactly what we need to hear. I mean the ability to do this on a broad level like we're hearing and well get the job done. So Iain, is there something that you would want to point out here to anybody listening? I mean, there's got to be, as I said earlier, is members of the digging community that are probably wary. I don't think there's any members of the utilities that are wary, but maybe there are

Iain Stables (33:28):

Mike. I think, and from the very beginning of this process, we didn't want to compromise safety and we factor that into every decision. And as I just said, what we're specifically talking about the multi-viewer and the GI IS, we have improved upon our current state as the A LP is continuing to do day-to-day. The other thing I'm really excited about is we're starting to hear other utilities are interested in wanting to get involved in the Alps, but even it's not limited to the Alps. You can share your data with your locate vendors through multi-viewer without having to be a member. And we're starting to hear from excavators that even if they might not want to do the locates themselves, that they're interested in going through the process to get access to the data as a double check because we've never had a way to share this data safely and ensure accuracy in one platform. And I really think we're just starting to scratch the surface of where we're going to see the A LP and multi-viewer and the technologies that we're using where it's going to take us.

Mike Sullivan (34:40):

I don't think there's anybody out there that wants to disturb the ground without a locate request, but history tells us that locate delays and timelines create apathy with respect to the damage prevention process. This change, the alternate locate provider, the designated locator process, it eliminates the apathy. It allows a person to take control of their site, not just from the digging, but from the entirety of the damage prevention process. Kris, before we sign off here today, is there anything else that you would like to cover that we haven't already?

Kris Philpot (35:19):

Yeah, thanks Mike. There's two things actually I wanted to circle back on earlier. Iain mentioned that the construction companies, whether they're having their own locators or not through a LP, are asking for this data and that me that we're hearing from the engineering teams within the various utilities or the third party engineering companies that are performing the design work, that if they had access to the multi-viewer data, it would streamline their design and planning process, possibly reduce the pre-engineering locate requests that come in. Ultimately, they're looking to see where everyone else is so they can perform the most efficient design and perhaps avoid conflicts. So if we can get that data through multi-viewer in their hands, I think it's going to have a positive impact downstream on the locates. The potentially could be fewer locates and ultimately less risk to those locates. The second item I wanted to circle back on earlier, I think you asked me how we support damage prevention and I went down the multi-viewer path.

(36:36):

Another area we support damage prevention is in the risk management of excavations. So we have a tool that basically bolts on to the locate requests coming in from the call centers, and we look not only at the data that the call center provides, who's digging, what type of digging, what machinery they're using type of work. We look at all of those things, which ultimately we calculate a probability or likelihood of a damage based on that information. But we marry up the GIS data, the utilities, GIS data with that, and we calculate an impact score. So many of the utilities have pretty comprehensive connectivity networks built in their GI IS. So they can simulate power outages, they can simulate their connectivity of their water distribution, gas distribution, and telecom. So if you picture an excavation site at a given location, we look at the one call data, we can come up with their directional drilling as an example, near a high pressure gas main.

(37:50):

So with that, we know there's a higher probability of a damage than say a hand dick. So we flag that as a higher probability. And then we look at the GIS data and the proximity to the infrastructure, but we look specifically at the type of infrastructure. So high pressure, gas main, what's the material, what's the dig depth? And we can even trace the network to understand maybe there's a hospital two kilometers downstream that could be impacted if there was a damage at that site. So our impact score looks at cost to replace the service, which is important, but also the public safety, we know where it is, so we know if it's near a public area, if it's high traffic, we can look at population density. So all these factors come into play and we're able to give each excavation ultimately a true risk score, which includes the probability or likelihood as well as the impact if a damage did occur.

Mike Sullivan (38:49):

When we get into that, it's fascinating. It creates all kinds of more questions for me, one of is off the tip of top of my head is where does artificial intelligence take us with that? I mean that's really going to be the next step.

Kris Philpot (39:02):

Absolutely. And we are training models on that front, but the reality of it is we have plenty of locate tickets to train, right? There's millions, millions and millions of locate requests coming in. But to really get value and to train up a model, we also need the damage data. So it's counterintuitive. I need millions of damages to properly train a model, and we simply don't have that across the industry. I find when we do have damages, we don't necessarily have really rich data on those damages. We have some high level attributes, but we don't always know exactly where and the infrastructure type that's there and some of

Mike Sullivan (39:54):

Those, the equipment that was used for example, exactly by the time that, well, if you damage a pipeline, it may not have any impact right away. Could be months, years later, right? Yeah.

Kris Philpot (40:06):

So yes, AI can really help that and probably uncover some components of our algorithm that we don't have, but it's a matter of standardizing that damage data and then feeding that back in and it's going to take time to train up a model.

Mike Sullivan (40:23):

I find that just fascinating and I mean the sky's the limit when you start thinking about the data. I mean the data is king. It's going to change everything for us. And wow, I used to lead the CanadIain Common Ground AllIaince, then we had the dirt report and everything, and that just touches the tip of the iceberg. When you can start to dive into data like this, I think the ability to prevent damage before it even has a chance to begin, it just increases dramatically. Gentlemen, once again, thank you for everything you do. This has been extremely enlightening. Thank you and rewarding. And thank you again for joining us, Kris and Iain.

Kris Philpot (41:09):

Absolutely. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me,

Mike Sullivan (41:11):

Kris. I could talk to you about this kind of stuff for hours, so you just might get your wish and be back on the safety moment.

Kris Philpot (41:21):

Yeah, I know. Thanks for having me. Happy to come back and chat further.

Mike Sullivan (41:26):

That's going to wrap things up on the Safety Moment podcast. I want to thank our producers stories and strategies, and I hope you choose to follow this podcast on any directory you're listening on, and please do leave a rating. We appreciate it. You can follow us on X at Utility Safety, and we're also on Instagram and Facebook. If you'd like to leave us a note, maybe you have an episode idea, email us at info@utilitysafety.ca and put podcast and big bold letters in the subject header. I'm Mike Sullivan, the president of Utility Safety Partners and your host On the safety moment. Click to know what's above and below. One click costs you nothing, not clicking well, that can cost you everything.